MomTo3Plus,   You sure have lots on your plate!! Running flat out to keep up. What leaps off the page to me is that you are an excellent parent - no truly - coz you CARE. I think the first thing that you are doing right is journaling. It is such a relief at times to let it all out, even to a book.   I think that your teens know that they have a top parent too. In my family I had similar issues with my younger 2 - I have helped raise 5 - depression, anxiety self harm, alcohol abuse but no other drugs (that I know of anyway). The really good news is that mine grew out of it with appropriate help. Kids, especially those feeling disconnected or a bit out of life, will always push the boundaries and coz they live with you they know exactly how to push all of your buttons. Reading your litany of disaster makes me grateful that my problems were way less.   What I think would be good for you to try is show the teens unconditional love first and foremost. Expect to be sorely tested while they convince themselves that you're for real here. This does NOT mean stop being their parent and in charge of the household. Not for a moment allow them to think that. How I have tried it over the years is to tell them often that you love them to the max and tell them this when you have had rule breaches too. It is difficult and enormously frustrating when they simply don't get it that their behaviour like drugs etc has long term consequences. To answer your question, I truly believe that it is not a personal thing against you, I think it is an attempt to push back at an unfair world by pushing someone safe that they can trust and whose love they are certain of - you.   About your husband, yes I think he could help more but, and a big but, you must explain to him how you're feeling about running the household and that you need his help. It may be that he thinks you're doing a bloody good job and it's best to stay out of your way and allow you to do things. I'd suggest making a quiet time when you can talk, and make the subjects and time known in advance to him so he's not surprised or feeling ambushed. Then try very hard to stick to "I messages" wherever possible. That means say things like I need..., I don't understand..., I have a problem with..., you get the idea I hope. I messages tend to be non confronting and easier for the recipient to deal with. Avoid "you messages" which are almost invariably taken to be critical or very critical of the other person. The bad news is that is is hard to not get a little bit accusatory - avoid that if you can. When I have had such situations I have written on a piece of paper, to which I refer, the items to be discussed coz it is so easy to include lots of other things while you're at it. Avoid this!   Now this post is a bit late on this subject but I hope it's still relevant and that things for you are on the improve. Remember that in various degrees almost all of us here have been there and done that so you are among friends. Don't lose sight of the fact that I am not any sort of medical person so my advice is just my own thinking on what has worked for me.   Good luck! ... View more

Oh boy Lilly19, You're doing it tough. Just like most of us I guess you think that you're the only parent this ever happened to. Well, it's not so. You have friends here. I know that this makes little difference to your hurting right now, just remember that when you reach out most of us have stood in your shoes. Unfortunately I have no magic bullets. My sub teen is now a very happy member of society and, at 22 yo, is pursuing a career in law. He was discussing the hows and whys of major self harm. Yes, dad was totally freaked out. There is hope! My son was under the care of a psychiatrist for many years, still consults on an as and when basis, but has weaned off his meds and is living life. My only way to help him was give unconditional love. Simple to say, very tough to do. Regardless of the hurts, grit your teeth and offer love. That's the only thing that will work IMHO. Your child is so very lost right now, be the anchor in their life. Good luck!! ... View more

Rowanna,   About your daughter's self harm, perhaps it is a control thing. My Miss 18 was doing it a couple of years back, she told me and her psychologist at the end of an appointment when I was called in for a wrap up and staggered me as well as surprising the psych. Missy is T1 diabetic for 14+ years and she said that her self harm was the only thing in her life she could control. Diabetes totally rules your life and it helped lead her into anxiety and depression, hence the psych. She enjoyed the feeling of power - will I do it today? When? Where? How many, how deep? It was, in her mind, the only thing she could decide for herself. Fortunately she's out of that dark, horrible place now and doing OK.   Perhaps your girl has a similar issue? It certainly looks like a plea for attention to me - Missy kept it all very well hidden, never dressing so that the evidence could be seen.   I think you're definitely on the right path with Headspace and counselors, we parents are way, way out of our depth and getting the pros involved is vital IMHO. My take on all things with our kids is show them unconditional love, regardless. That doesn't come easy and expect her to test whether it's real or just talk - a rough ride for a while I can attest!   Good luck and don't forget to take care of yourself too - if you're a mess emotionally I don't think you can help her much. ... View more

Wow UJB, you sure have some tough stuff going on. This strikes a chord with me because Miss 18 is T1 for over 14 years. She had so much of this rebellious stuff against her diabetes, still does but improving, was depressed, suffered anxiety attacks, self harm, tantrums etc. Her management went out the window because she just ignored diabetes, hence 2 hospital admissions for DKA and suffered from fatty liver disease for a year. She was taken off the pump due to her lack of management and out of control BGLs, a good idea really, basal bolus therapy is safer. Next week she is going onto CGM and linked pump after getting herself close to back on the rails. Her HbA1c was regularly over 17 - really, that high - but under 9 now. As I'm sure you know, out of control BGLs often lead to significant emotional problems for T1 diabetics. As for your other very, very serious problems I can only imagine how tough it is for you. I'm sure you and your wife are like us - heartbroken to see your child destroying herself and unable to do anything but watch. If I may offer a little advice, be sure to keep yourselves mentally OK, meaning think seriously about counseling for your family and you and your wife. You'll be no good to Missy if you're mentally wrecked so try to seek proper help with all of this as it seems you're doing. Good luck mate, hang in there. ... View more

Jeb-03, I think Sister is correct, you don't really hate your daughter, it's her behaviour that you hate. That behaviour is extremely challenging, at least it was to me. It is very likely intentional by Missy to exert control over you and the family. I have no magic bullets but I found great comfort in some close friends who were always up for a coffee and ready to allow me to let it all out - such friends are priceless. I hope that you have some similar friends. I know it's easy for me to sit here at the keyboard with good advice, but some years back I had some similar problems with my son. Not as extreme as yours I admit but bad enough with Police bringing him home drunk at age 16, that sort of stuff. Good news - he survived, woke up to himself and is now finishing off his Law degree at uni. So there is hope. ... View more

I wonder, ConfusedDad, whether you could find some time to be alone with your wife over a cup of coffee and discuss your concerns. I mean discuss, not finger pointing and blame games. As I see it, the best way forward for your family is with the parents united so I think this is worth some effort. Above all don't criticize your wife in front of anybody, especially kids. Maybe you could have a private chat with your daughter too, depending on her maturity and willingness to talk to you. When mine was 15 she literally didn't talk to me from one week to the next unless she needed to access the "Bank of Dad". I think you're making good progress by recognising the problem and seeking answers. Good luck!! ... View more

I think you are so very right about listening, really listening, to your daughter. It seems that you are treating her with love and respect, allowing her to have opinions even if you disagree with them. To me the whole thing revolves around unconditional love for your daughter. Not an easy thing, trust me! As you offer her this love expect it to be tested a few times. In my experience when your child gets the idea that you really mean it when you say that you love them without limit they are empowered to get on with life confidently.I guess that's because they know that they have a backstop. Keep up your good work and think on things that you are doing which are working. Be satisfied with small moves in the right direction. ... View more

Moonlight, I think you're very much on the right track, informing her dad and then sitting down with the household to discuss things in a sensible fashion. Well done for no yelling! Finger pointing, raised voices, accusations are all very negative here and we can see that you know it. What I suggest is try, as much as possible, to stick to "I" messages - I don't understand... I don't know what... I'm confused by... - and avoid "you" messages - you did... you should... you should not... - and I think your daughter will appreciate it. You last sentence is spot on, keep up the unconditional love and acceptance so that home is her haven, her refuge. Oh yes, expect your love to be tested a few times while she finds out if you're "real" about it. ... View more

Hi Moonlight, our posts crossed. I'm very glad that your GP seems to be on the same page as you and your daughter. I think it's very positive that you now have a plan and a way forward for you both. Yes, in these situations discipline can be the stuff of nightmares - what's bad behaviour and what's the outworking of her problems??? ... View more

Hi Moonlight, Wow, you have the big one, don't you? I stood in your shoes a couple of years ago when I accidentally discovered a "good bye" note from my teen daughter. I can't stand the "S" word, but that's what it was, like a will and individual best wishes to her family and friends by name. I totally mismanaged the situation I'm sorry to say, I went straight out and called the psychologist who was treating her for anxiety and stress related problems but I simply failed to even mention my fears, no terror, to Miss 16, as she was then, herself. All I could think of was that my baby wanted to harm herself, panic! She had a psych appointment two days later and it all came out there when I was invited into the session and Missy freaked that a) I knew about it, b) that I never said a word and c) that I was treating her like a baby. At this interview she admitted to self harm "for a long time" and when I raised an eyebrow she pulled her skirt up high to show the scars, old and new, to the psych and me. Our relationship has recovered from this major damage and she no longer self harms, not does she want to she tells me. The point of my story, Moonlight, is to make you feel that you have company on this site who have been in your shoes and felt the awful loneliness that you feel when this stuff happens to your child. I'm certain that here you have a sympathetic, understanding collection of ready to listen ears and hopefully some good advice. My advice is, as always, offer your daughter unconditional love and tell her out loud that  you love her more any words can convey. My daughter told me recently that this declaration of love, which she tested a few times, actually made her feel much, much better and helped the psych aid her as she regained her feelings of self worth. Still a work in progress but at least we are on the way and can all see progress. Hang in there, don't accept any backsliding or difficulties as defeat but rather as a part of the healing process I suggest. Good luck. ... View more

Ngaio, Thanks for your advice and wisdom presented to us all in these fora. I'm sure that we all wish you well in your future work. taokat is right, you'll be an asset where ever you are in the future. ... View more

G'day Jo-Anne, I think you're doing great work. Keep it up and don't be discouraged. I'm sorry to say that I have no quick fix for you, all I can suggest is find a compatible group of medicos in the requisite disciplines and go from there. As for you, I suggest you simply offer unconditional love. It has worked for me but it is far from a quick fix. Expect to be tested by various behaviors too as she will need to see that you mean it. Perhaps some counseling for the rest of your family can help you all cope, a family is a unit and when one bit is out of whack, the whole thing is not functional. Do not blame yourself, that is destructive and almost invariable untrue. Good luck!! ... View more

As this debate goes on I see that it might be possible to think that I came on a bit strong earlier about meds for kids. Sorry if I upset anyone but I am concerned to see every little person properly diagnosed and treated. All humans are different, each and every one of us, so only an experienced clinician having a clinical relationship with us can decide the best course. What I fear is someone being tempted to think that what worked for this person will work for my child without seeking appropriate advice. Mbfwt, I am no medico, but I offer my experience in the hope that it helps and your child is helped to recover. Good luck and keep up your good work. My child is having a good outcome, I wish you the same. ... View more

Taeboogie, I think you are 110% wrong here. My son was as the edge of serious self harm when he was diagnosed with clinical depression and AHHD. I mean Mr 7 was talking about what to do and how he would do it, the ultimate one too, which frightened his mum and me out of our skins. Quickly to the child psychiatrist, ADHD overlaid with clinical depression says he. After being referred for half a day to Westmead Brain and Behavior Centre we came back to the child psychiatrist with a sheaf of graphs which the shrink explained to us. His Dx of ADHD is rock solid from the graphs which complicated his depression greatly. Without proper medication he simply would never have recovered from his depression, ever. The psych and our son are still in a clinical relationship and he still takes meds for his ADHD, depression long gone. With the greatest of respect, in the case of my son and very many others like him, they  simply cannot function without appropriate meds. end of story. Through the meds my son is NOT failing, he is at the top of his cohort studying law at a major university. He functions well in society and has had no thoughts of self harm for over a decade. Your comments about serotonin are only partly correct - serotonin is not meant to stay permanently at high levels in our brains, is is reabsorbed at an appropriate rate otherwise we would spend our lives wandering around with silly grins on our faces. The RATE of uptake is what becomes problematic in most depressive events, often exacerbated by any ADHD present. Adjust the rate to a normal timing for this person, and we have proper functioning. In general the meds can be weaned out of the patient after some months when normal functioning is reestablished. Been there, done that both personally and with my son. Take home message:- do not ever presume to make such sweeping statements without any clinical evidence from the persons involved. Meds are often vital for many people and only an experienced physician in a clinical relationship with the persons can judge. ... View more

My daughter was very "different" and withdrawn when she was actively self harming. Once we found out about it we were able to see the signs. It didn't mean that we could divert her from this or even talk about it. So I just gritted my teeth and tried to be dad and took every chance to chat, even the pedestrian stuff, so it was a habit and hoped that we could keep talking rather than the silence we'd had so many times. It felt bad and we felt very helpless but there was nothing we could do. After a while she stopped and we finally realised that. A lot of the history and what she actually did came out at an interview with a psychologist she was seeing. We were invited in for a chat at the end of the session and found out many things. It's not really a good news story because we were merely passengers on this out of control bus which happily stopped at an OK place. She has told us that it was a "phase" - her word - and that's over now. As for your worrying, we worried ourselves silly even though we knew it was pointless, but this is my child here and I'm not made of granite, of course I worry like hell about her. Overlay worry with a knowledge of your helplessness and you get the concept of how it feels as I'm sure you do. She chose to let herself recover, we were locked out of her world and couldn't help - an awful feeling for a parent - so we had little to do with her recovery. All I can suggest is unconditional love and prayer if that's your thing. Try to keep your life going too, you're not much help to your child if you're an emotional wreck. That's what we did, more or less successfully - less rather than more I must admit. I truly wish you good luck with your daughter as she works herself out. ... View more

Wow mumofthree, you have the big one here and no mistake.   Sorry to say but I have no magic spell for you to invoke. What I am trying to do with my  Miss 17 is to stay engaged and have regular little chats about whatever as a habit so she is relaxed talking to me. I try to take the odd couple of minutes when we're doing things like tidying up, even just a few words will do, just so it's a habit talking to dad. She has a chronic medical issue which requires significant monitoring but I studiously refrain from making that a focus of our chats wherever possible. You know the stuff of chats, anything she likes to mention and I do have an idea of how she sees life from them. Hopefully she will come to me with anything serious which bothers her but I really know not what may happen, I just work as hard as I can to keep open communication with her.   My first priority is to offer her unconditional love and I think she knows that. She also knows, I hope/think, that she has my approval for most things she does and I trust her to be sensible. But, and a big but, I worry a lot that she lacks the experience to make sound choices in many areas and I'm not sure how to help her.   Dealing with these sorts of issues is, as I see it, tap dancing on egg shells - make a mis-step and it's a mess. I see open communication as simply vital to help our kids avoid bad choices.   I wish I could offer more but like you, this whole parenting thing is a learning experience and the annoying thing is that if you get it right for one child, the next one will be different so start learning again. Be very aware that I am just like you, an amateur trying hard to help my kids. I have no qualifications in this area.   Good luck and good communicating! ... View more

Worriedmum, First of all, you're talking. fabulous. Try real hard to keep talking about anything, everything and nothing. If you can keep those chanels of communication open you're way ahead. I would suggest that you wait until invited before having much to say about depression and stuff. Your daughter seems to be doing it a bit tough right now and it's really great that she wants to talk to you. Watching my daughter and her friends, it seems to me that teen girls are often very bitchy, it's so common but I know not why. I truly wish I could give you the magic formula to solve your daughter's problems but, sorry, I can't. All I can offer is what has worked for me, keep offering her your unconditional love. Good luck, keep doing what you're doing, it seems to work. ... View more

When I read your posts, taziness, it makes my blood boil. Our daughters are being treated as objects, commodities and simply depersonalised. I hate that. I hate that they have been brainwashed by various parts of society to accept that as normal. Nowhere is there the slightest regard for their needs and wants or any acceptance that they are people, not walking blow up dolls. Rant mode off. I'd love to have a magic spell you could speak over your daughter, that we could all speak over our daughters - I have three - that would move their hearts to demand respect and insist on being treated as people, not objects. I also wish for a spell to speak over our sons to move their hearts to treat women, young and older, as people. But I don't. All I can suggest is that we all treat our children of both genders with total unconditional love then, if it's offered, take opportunities to influence them to think rightly about their sexuality. It's not much, sorry. Communication is vital and when we have it I suggest we use it to plant appropriate concepts into the minds of our children. It's tough - we're parents, what could we possibly know? We must not give up on our kids though. Sorry to rant and offer no real help but it's a subject close to my heart raising three daughters. Just know that you, taziness, are not alone here. Good luck! ... View more

Suzie, IMHO you are right now living a parents worst nightmare. It happened to me a few years back, I still remember every detail. I remember the chill of dread deep in my gut clutching my vital organs as I wondered if it would go further to ......unthinkable. My entirely unprofessional, untrained advice is to ensure that your child knows that s/he has your absolutely unconditional love. Don't assume, tell her him right now out loud. Then look through this site for help and maybe phone Lifeline. SASPO contact your GP and get a referral to appropriate psychiatric help. Take heart, my child recovered, I hope and pray that yours can too. ... View more

Hi Kalis, probably a smart move to remove specifics, I didn't think it through - thanks. As for support, we have close friends at our local church who are always ready, willing and able to listen and help when it all seems a bit overwhelming. I so appreciated being able to talk through my own worries and fears for our then little boy who was talking frightening thoughts. I'm glad, very glad, that I haven't needed their help for over a decade, but I'm also very glad to know that it's there should I ever need it again. ... View more

Gday there. My GP & the psychiatrist told me and his mum that it may take a few weeks to get the dose right when my then 7yo was diagnosed with depression and ADHD. He was talking about self harm too. We were strongly encouraged to get back to the psych with feedback daily so he could adjust the dose. He got it right in a couple of days, a massive improvement day 1, then a few tweaks. If I could offer a bit of non qualified advice, try to give her the meds around the same time of day and make sure that the psych knows where she is in her menstrual cycle - it matters I'm told. My son is now 20 and still takes his ADHD meds but weaned off the anti depressant within 18 months and has not had any issues with depression for over 11 years. I see the SSRI meds as being like a splint on a broken arm, it gives support for a while until nature takes its course and she recovers, but without the splint there will likely be lots of harm done. Above all else make sure she knows that your love is unconditional. Good luck with her treatment and hang in there. Remember that you're not alone even though it feels like it at first. ... View more

The simple fact that I have a nice place to live and a meal on the table whenever I need one. ... View more

That's a tough situation you're in messylife.   Would that I had the magic solution but I don't.   It seems to me that for now it's likely best that miss 10 is kept out of the way of your new family. Perhaps you could find a way to have her for a weekend every month or so and go and stay with friend/family/other place but not at your family home. Be creative and try very hard to meet her current needs for your time. Be very aware that she really needs a good relationship with her dad so be creative and talk it over with her. When you're talking things over, remember to treat her as an adult unless/until she proves that she hasn't the maturity. You must ensure that you're OK yourself before you can help anyone else including your kids. My miss 16 also had problems with self image and depression, almost sorted now.   My situation was similar except that I didn't have a new child. That in itself might push a few buttons for miss 10. My way was to offer my kids, two, unconditional love and hope and pray that they would accept me and my situation. We went away to stay with family each school holidays and they came to me a couple of evenings each week after school for dinner.   Be creative and accept what is offered would be my best advice pal. As time goes on your just being there may pay dividends too, miss 10 wants and needs some stability I expect, so be yourself and just be there.   PS I might be entirely wrong so sift out my advice please and I wish you the best of luck in establishing a solid loving relationship with miss 10. Mine is a work in progress with my miss 16 but it's getting better and I'm now fine with my mr 19. Good luck! ... View more

My days as a new dad - I don't remember much but a few impressions still remain.   I felt very, very inadequate to care for and nurture this new little person. I jumped at every sound he made. His mum did a much better job than I did. Still and all, after a week or so I started to get the idea with some coaching from her ladyship.   I think the major problem was that I came into it without much thought, I hadn't done any "armchair flying" and so was totally unprepared. The good news is that I got the idea quickly and learned to trust my instincts as did his mum. I don't recall any personal mental health issues, just some stress. Once we, my wife and I, sat and talked through our feelings and worries, things got better quickly. Grandparents are pure gold in this situation, especially when they know not to intrude but just "be there" for us.   I felt plenty of stress and more than a little anxiety but my wife and I talked it through and found that we were in the same boat in these areas so we teamed up and it got better. We were very blessed that the babe settled well and was not a fractious one. I can see how easily things could go bad with a difficult first baby when you have no support from family nearby.   As for being "the rock", I always feel that to a certain extent. This is my family and I need to take responsibility for their well being. A big but is that if you're a team, husband and wife, then the pressure eases a lot. Seeing anxiety and depression as a sign of weakness is, IMHO, totally wrong and destructive to the person involved. The strongest man can be depressed. The strongest man can be anxious about some things. that's life. What matters is how you handle it - do you admit to yourself that "I'm not doing too well with this" and bend your best mates ear a bit or try to "tough it out"? Have a beer or two with a good mate and talk it over is my advice, it worked for me. If that doesn't work for you, take yourself off to your GP and get some help. None of us is so mentally tough that nothing shakes us, not one. So admit you're human and get some help if necessary. Real men know their limits and get help when they are exceeding these limits in any area of life.   Sophie-RO, I hope this ramble helps. ... View more

Finding a child psyciatrist I found very, very difficult. S/he has to be able to have a raport with the child and get along with the parents. Then comes the difficulty of getting an appointment. Persevere!! My son was diagnosed with ADHD and clinical depression at age 7. Extremely confronting for his parents. The good news is that my GP, an old friend, got us into a local child psychiatrist pronto. After the first interview and diagnosis he prescribed appropriate meds and it made a dramatic difference - Mr7 lost his depressive moods and his general "liveability" with the family improved within 2 days. We were sent to the Brain & Behaviour centre at Westmead for brain scans - the "electric hat" - to confirm the ADHD was in fact a correct diagnosis. It was and Mr-now-20 still takes meds and manages himself quite well. His depression faded after less than a year and he weaned off the SSRI pills successfully with no lapses over about 11 years. He is studying Law at uni quite successfully. I guess the point is that depression in young kids happens. I saw it as like a broken arm, give appropriate support and treatment and it should heal. While it is resolving, unconditional love is the answer I believe. Good luck!! Waldo P ... View more

That's a great page, thanks Mitzi.   Even though it's not "targeted" at dads, I see a lot of good old common sense and some great background info there. My Mr 19 was a very difficult young man in his early teens, very difficult indeed. He was "asked to seek his future education" at another school by his then current high school and generally devoid of direction it seemed. Couple this with severe, properly diagnosed through brain scans, ADHD and it's not a good package. Sport, a couple of good mates and unconditional love from his parents slowly worked things out for him and he settled right down by mid year 11, doing well enough in his HSC to study law. He is close to the top of his group at uni too, a real turn around.   So other parents, when you wonder what will the future be for your difficult, listless, irresponsible teen boy there is hope. You need to give him unconditional love as the major thing IMHO. Then I'd suggest helping him to find a passion, sport, Scouting etc. Good luck! ... View more

I have a loving family, a roof over my head and food on the table. Compared to a huge percentage of the world I've got it made and I try to always remember that. ... View more

Actually T_D the few I spoke to about it were mystified like me but we soon had professional help due to other issues of which the self harm was a manifestation. ... View more

Hi, I found out about ReachOut from a close friend who is with the organisation.   I'm proud of my kids for ALMOST everything they do - I just love them and approve of most of their stuff.   I prefer to relax with a nice glass, or two, of wine, some good jazz and a good book. Unfortunately that's mostly "aspirational" as it rarely comes to pass.   In a broad brush sense, the worst parenting advice I ever got was "be firm, be consistent, don't ever change your mind" as if I am blessed with infinite wisdom. The best was "just give your kids unconditional love and we can work everything else out somehow".   I have two teens who have dabbled in self harm and yet survived it so far. I'd love to be there for other parents who have this awful experience. I never felt so alone as when I found out about their problems - like who can you talk to who understands? Well, we understand here! ... View more