Son abusive

[taokat]

Hi @Designed, I guess I disagree with things like use of the toilet, shower etc being priviledges. It's great that you have worked out solutions to all I expressed concern about. Can I ask what that looks like for your son?

Everyone's circumstances are different in one way or another and making comparisons isn't constructive for anyone, although I have definitely been where you have been with violence, abuse and threats. I am definitely no stranger to the extremes in parenting if that alleviates your concerns about my experiences and capability to understand. 

He is a struggling teen, as was mine. I could never consider her cruel for any of the damage or destruction that was created amidst her outbursts. Very tough to cope with, dangerous most times, frightening yes - but not cruel. They just don't think like that, and they don't feel proud of their behaviours. 

[Zoesplace]

Hi @Designed  do I understand you correctly, that your son has been refused access to a toilet for a period of time?  Where is he going to the toilet?  Does he have access to facilities so he can take care of his basic hygiene needs?  

It sounds like your family has been having a terrible time trying to cope with your sons mental health issues and behaviour while also caring for your other children.  I acknowledge that I do not have a thorough understanding of the whole situation other than what you have shared on the forum, and I have just focused on one thing here, but your comment about him earning the privilege of using the toilet has just really stood out to me.  

[Orbit64]

Weighing here in agreement with Designed. I have learnt that when the behaviour is extreme and chosen, then you need to deal in currency they value. If they do not behave, they do not get the currency.

In a bush land environment, a person is perfectly able to toilet in a hygienic way. It is just not as easy and comfortable as a standard dunny. As a teen and onward, I have camped out for long periods without toilet facilities. Simple hygene is all that is required. Soap and water in a bucket will do.

I grew up with a friend that had no hot water till he was 16. I never knew till he told me it was so nice to have a hot shower at home.

We take hot showers and toilets for granted as a necessity. In reality, one can still remain clean and toilet in a bush land setting. I would not say the same in a city environment though.

[taokat]

Hi @Orbit64, I believe there's a huge difference between choosing to camp out with no facilities, or actiually not having hot water, to refusing use of these facilities when they are readily available. 

Your comment about the behaviour being chosen I don't believe to be accurate. Is that what you've been told by psychologists or counsellors? For kids who've suffered trauma, as Designed stated her son had, it's not a choice. Trauma, mental health issues, being a teenager, all change the functioning of the brain - none of it they have control over. These are not bad kids. If someone breaks their arm, we (hopefuly) don't expect them to just keep using it as normal. If they can't, we don't restrict them from their basic rights available to everyone else in the family.  

I have just found over the years of dealing with my daughter's struggles, that there are safer, more positive ways to achieve the same results. It does take time and continued effort, but I've found the benefits far outweigh short term reprieve we may get from ousting our kids out.   

[Designed]

Thanks @Orbit64 for your support. I find it difficult to know whether I should go into minute detail to explain everything, or just be happy knowing what we are doing is the first thing that has worked for 18 months and let it go. 

[Orbit64]

Like all of this, it is a complex problem with complex solutions. 

I do not believe that they are necessarily "bad children".

However in our case, there is choice being made that is clear from his behaviour around others. 

He behaves with impeccable manners and behaviour around others when he chooses to. He choses to behave in the worst possible way around us. This is not involuntary. We are trying our best to understand why though. 

There are behavioural norms acceptable and not acceptable in our society. If we do not comply with these norms, our society applies some kind of penalty for going outside those norms. He has gone a long way outside the acceptable behavioural norms for his school community and his family. Withdrawing access to his currency is one of the many things that may be used to address his behaviour. 

I agree, that this cannot be done in isolation. 

[Designed]

Our son has just formally been diagnosed with ADHD (& possible personality disorder to look into if ADHD treatment fails). When I asked why he didn't have symptoms as a child (besides being very physical and behind on processing skills/attention at school), they said that with hormones quite often things "bloom"....which I did then remember I had read about personality disorders also. He will need continued therapy & medication (if he will agree!), and will look into having his tonsils removed (& possibly adenoids) (google tonsils and adenoids removed ADHD gov for well researched government paper), as they have always been enlarged & problematic. This explains why the significantly reduced stimulating environment here at home has helped him tremedously. He is a combination ADHD, but primarily in testing Impulsive (then hyperactive & attention last). And explains a lot of his behaviour. We will go private Paediatrician as wait list (& consistency) is terrible with public. I can't get him to CAMHS as well (I'll be lucky if he will go to the paed), and there are no psychiatrists available within months (unless acute ER visit)...shortage here. Psycologist recommended he get seen asap. Wish 1st psycologist had done assesments a year ago..what a waste of time. Any suggestions pros & cons for medication types suiting impulstivity adhd? I've heard good and bads for all of them. Will do a lot of my own research, but want to be prepared as much as possible before the appointment. Thanks

[Chalke5]

Hi @Designed this is good news for you.  I don't know much about medication for ADHD however, I think you need to be guided by professionals on this one.  If you have doubts about medication a second opinion is always wise.  I understand is some cases, as children approach adult years the medication is gradually lessened until they can function completely without it.  At least you may have some answers regarding his behaviour which I think is helpful.  Keep us posted.

[Designed]

Yes, I believe that to be true...about 19-21 yrs their brain settles down. Though I know of 2 adults just being diagnosed in their 50's! Will have to see what they recommend, just wanted to get something up my sleeve as far as not being unwise and mot having the right questions for side affects etc. Thanks

[Jammy]

It's good you are getting some answers now. It's terrible not knowing what's goi g on with our children.
We have been through 'the system', and it's very confusing.
My daughter was diagnosed with predominately inattentive ADHD by a paediatrician when she was 8. That diagnosis was changed to GAD and language disorder when she was 11. A psychiatrist changed the diagnosis.
I wonder if she will eventually get a personality disorder diagnosis too.
I am learning a lot, but one think I have learnt is that situations can change.
I know a few people whose children have ADHD. Nearly all of them have at least one other diagnosed condition too (eg. Dyslexia, dyspraxia, ASD, anxiety disorders, learning issues...).
A good information source written for parents is additude. They have a website.
Childmind Institute is also a good one for information about all sorts of child related issues, including ADHD.

If I could change any decisions we made when she was younger, I would have taken her to the child psychiatrist earlier. I would also have looked into play therapy with an OT. However, we thought we were doing the right things at the time.